(Note: those visiting this page for the first time may also want to read two follow-up posts: one exploring the historical roots of the proposed motto, and one about a state Senate committee’s consideration of the motto.)
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You try to do something nice…
Last spring, Senate Minority Leader Joe Benning got a letter from an eighth-grader at The Riverside School in Lyndonville. She was studying Latin, and wanted Senator Joe to introduce a bill to give Vermont a Latin motto. We’ve got “Freedom and Unity,” but no Latin.
As the idea developed, those involved came up with a motto: Stella quarta decima fulgeat. The translation: “May the Fourteenth Star Shine Bright,” is a nod to Vermont’s status as the fourteenth state to join the union. Nice. Poetic in both languages. Benning brought the student to Montpelier and introduced her to the Government Operations Committee, which would consider her proposal.
*Also possible endorsement deal with the new 14th Star Brewery in St. Albans?
It was too late in last year’s session to launch the idea, but Benning introduced it this month. Senate Bill 2 would not affect “Freedom and Unity” at all; it would simply establish the Latin motto as a separate thing.
A nice harmless moment, no? A reward for a hardworking, creative student, yes?
Funny thing. Last week, WCAX did a story about Benning’s bill. And the reaction, as Benning told me in an email?
I anticipated suffering the backroom internal joking from my colleagues in the legislature. What I did not anticipate was the vitriolic verbal assault from those who don’t know the difference between the Classics and illegal immigrants from South America.
Sen. Joe Benning, perhaps on his way back to Mexico. (Photo from his Facebook page.)
That’s right, the WCAX Facebook page was inundated with angry posts from ignorant Vermonters spewing their hatred in barely readable fractured English. (Spelling and punctuation as-is) Warning: Teh stoopid, it burns!
Dorothy Lynn Lepisto: “I thought Vermont was American not Latin? Does any Latin places have American mottos?”
Norman Flanders: “What next Arab motto??”
Kevin P. Hahn: “How about ‘go back south of the boarder'”
Richard Mason: “We are AMERICANS, not latins, why not come up with a Vermont motto that is actually from us”
Judy Lamoureux: “Throw him out of the country tell him to take obama with him!”
Phil Salzano: “My question is, are we Latin, or are we Vermonters? Alright then, English it is…..”
Lori Olds: “I thought this was USA why are they trying to make Americans aliens”
Chris Ferro: “That’s a BIG NO, if you live in the United State YOU need to learn ENGLISH!!”
Julie Kellner: “No, you a USA citizen!.. Learn & understand the language!!!.”
Kurtis Jones: “No cause vt ain’t no Latino area. Leave the motto alone”
Zeb Swierczynski: “ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!! sick and tired of that crap, they have their own countries”
Ken Curtis: “Just when I felt our represenatives could not possibly get any dumber , they come up with this…get real… this is the USA, not some Moslim or Mexican country…stop given in to these people…PRESS 1 for English and forget the rest… worry about the problems you were elected to do”
Ronald Prouty Jr. “No way this is America not Mexico or Latin America. And they nee to learn our language, just like if we go there they want us to speak theirs”
Kristen Wright: “thats un called for this is the usa”
Kelley Dawley: “How do you say idiotic senator in spanish? I’d settle for deport illegals in spanish as a back up motto”
Heather Chase: “Seriously?? Last time I checked..real vermonters were speakin ENGLISH.. NOT LATIN..good god…”
I could go on, but that’s more than enough.
And really, it’s only the tip of the iceberg. For every commenter who didn’t know the difference between Mexico and Rome, there were ten who were apoplectic over the notion that Our Representatives Are Wasting Their Time (as if this bill will take more than a few minutes anywhere), and that Joe Benning is a moron who should be voted out of office and/or evicted from Vermont.
The good Senator is reacting to this with admirable equanimity:
I figure this is a good opportunity for my now ninth grader to learn how to respond to such attacks with fortitude and grace. I hope to be meeting with her and her parents this weekend to continue the educational experience.
Good on ya, Senator. Illegitimi non carborundum.
The Vermont Political Observer. 
Illegitimati non carborundum. (Someone has be the Spelling Nazi). Have there been objections to “E pluribus unum” on the Great Seal of the United States?
Wikipedia has a list of state mottos, and the list features a lot of Latin, California’s is Greek! Perhaps publishing that list would be a useful educational endeavor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_and_territory_mottos)
According to the Internet, which knows all, we’re both wrong — it’s “illegitimi.” Which might well be a slight corruption of the original Latin; you probably know better than I.
Just a side note from a strong proponent of the motto and a died in the wool Latinist: illegitimis non carborundum isn’t real Latin (spelled either way) though some organizations have taken it up as a motto purported to mean “don’t let the bastards get you down.”.
Mr. Starling – ‘dyed’ in the wool, not ‘died’ in the wool. You’re still alive, after all!
I noticed that as soon as I posted, Beth but the site doesn’t have an edit feature. Oops.
“…better than *me*.”
Better than I – comparative takes the subjective pronoun. The implication is “. . . better than I would.”
I have read somewhere that the motto was changed to IN GOD WE TRUST, but I much prefer E PLURIBUS UNUM. Pretty sure Washington, Jefferson, et al would too.
Most of the founding fathers would be pretty ticked off that “In God We Trust” was our motto.
E PLURIBUS UNUM doesn’t translate into “In God We Trust”. Different motto. E PLURIBUS UNUM translates “Out of many, One” signifying that our collection of states makes us a great nation.
Well, not sure about Washington, but his writings make it pretty certain that Jefferson was a Deist: Believed in a deity, but not subscribing to any religion. He might well have been OK with a generic reference to “God”. “God” and “Creator” appear in our founding documents, but no “Jesus”, Moses”, “Mohammed”, etc. Best guess would be OK with “In God We Trust”.
No, they’re not real Latin words. Yes, it’s a joke. The grammatical construction is called a “passive periphrastic” — a future passive participle with an imperative sense. In other words, the literal translation would be something like “It should not be ground down by the bastard.”
“Illegitimi” is a singular dative of agent, not a plural nominative, so Olentzero’s objection doesn’t apply. In any case, “carborundum” would agree with the (unspecified) subject, not the agent.
It’s OK to leave out forms of the verb “to be,” so either “Illegitimi non carborundum” or “Illegitimi non carborundum est” is acceptable.
Peach Pitt, i don’t know if you’re an English or Language teacher of some sort, and I sure as hell don’t remember all the formula’s and descriptions of words and their places, but reading your statements is a blessing in that there are still some American’s that have some semblance of how to speak and write. lol. Thank you for your comments!
Wouldn’t it be “DE illegitimis non carborundum”? The implied subject of “carborundum” is actually the reader or addressee. Literally translated, it would read, “Concerning bastards it should not be troubled over.”
And isn’t the Latin for “bastard” “nothus” (from Greek “nothos”). That’s off the top of my head, so I could be wrong.
New England used to be a center for classical studies. What happened?
Please forgive me if after reading this and mentally translating it to Spanish and Portuguese I imagine what education must be like in a Vermont public school and smiling, wag my head in a smug, self-satisfied sort of way…
Why the rest of the world laughs at the US and its education system. Is it not time for massive change?
This is a non story. It represents the right as much as waters world represents the left. If you want to lay the blame for Americans not knowing Latin then place it where it belongs. Right at the feet of educators and reformers. Personally I believe you can easily point to the moment when American education started its long precipitous slid. The day that some reformer decided that Latin was no longer to be taught in school.
The issue isn’t *just* people not knowing Latin. More disturbing is that people don’t even know there IS a language called Latin, and because of their anger/sense of entitlement, make extremist statements about others.
Who is talking left and right? I sense a little paranoia. By the way, some students still do take Latin (as does the young girl who respectfully requested the motto).
Paranoid? Maybe. I know that in some schools Latin is taught, but not in public schools. Now if you know a public school that offers Latin please tell me about it. I would love for my grandchildren to attend. But my guess is only Private or those public schools in the well heeled parts of town that offer Latin. It is a shame too, since even a slight ability to read Latin greatly expands the understanding of the student.
“illegitimi non carborundum” makes no sense as Latin. “Don’t let the b___ds get you down” would be something like “Noli opprimi a nothis”, but that will never catch on.
Another good Latin motto for Vermont might be “Montes ignorantiae sonitu resonant” — “The hills are alive with the sound of ignorance.”
“the unlawful are not silicon carbide” means you have no appreciation for the essence of the meaning rather, you are grinding the rest of us down with your lack of wit.
The history of the phrase supersedes the literal definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum
So if they think Latin is the language of Latinos what do they think Pig Latin is ? The language spoken by Latino police ?
LOL – The high school I attended in the early sixties only taught Latin and French. Frankly, I’m astounded at the ignorance of the Vermonters responding to this story. What jerks. I love the Latin motto!
Too much Fox News. And a sad comment on the education of many Vermonters.
Too much public schooling, and too much television.
To blame this level of ignorance on Fox alone is to completely miss the point, and therefore the solution.
Be fair, a bit more Dora the Explorer and they’d at least be able to tell the difference between Latin and Spanish. Or we could just Clockwork Orange some “Horrible Histories” through their eyeballs.
I had a public education and learned significantly better than this. Don’t place all blame on the system. Some people are shite students.
NOT ENOUGH Public Schooling. They taught Latin in MY public school back in the 1970s.
It is “Fox News” in large part. Scorn for education and praise for bombast and ignorance.
My sons went to public schools…they know the difference between classical Latin and Spanish…and they know a lot of history. AND they are “millennials”. Let’s not blame this bit of ignorance on the schools.
I’d just like to take a second and point out that most public school teachers actually do their best. We’re hobbled by bullshit laws and excessive testing, but we still try. And on top of that, there’s not much we can do if the people still choose to be stupid in the face of a free education. American culture itself is pretty heavily anti-intellectual anymore.
Ok. I have to say it. Not in a mean way Senator Benning, but it just really jumped out at me.
Remember when you went on FOX news and really got after Gruber for talking about “the stupidity of the American voter”?
Good point, Kelly. These voters who are quoted here also show another trait which is also American as apple pie, though it is not just an American failure: racial hatred. And these were vermonters. Imagine the tone of these tweets if this had been somewhere else.
Fortunately the ignorant, uneducated Vermonters who posted their racist views don’t vote. The educated ones do. We are for the most part an open-minded, progressive state with no patience for fools.
I think it’s important to understand the difference between ignorance and stupidity. It’s an important distinction, because the former can be corrected, while the latter cannot.
This is clearly a case of ignorance; Conflating “Latin American” and “Latin.”
In the case of Gruber however, he was clearly advocating that we, the American people, are too stupid to know what is good for us, and that we therefore must be lied to.
If you don’t know something because you never had a chance to be exposed to it, then you’re merely ignorant, and it’s not your fault.
If you were exposed to it and didn’t bother to learn it or retain it, or lived your life surrounded by information but never bothered to absorb any of it, you’re ignorant. AND stupid, too. Ignorant because you don’t know, stupid because you had the chance to learn and threw it away.
I think the tone of those commenters might confirm a theory. My theory is that if Vermonters don’t leave the state, this is the mindset you get. I wonder how many of those commenters ever spent a few years in the rest of America (military service doesn’t count, because it’s a cocoon, not a typical American community).
I hate to say it, but these are the folks who vote for the likes of the good Senator.
No wonder I can’t even get a email from my senators in Bennington county or my reps either. I always thought it was because they were so busy, no, they just think all their constituents are stupid. Now I know why Shumlin was reelected.
Sen. Benning never said his constituents were stupid. The people who can’t tell the difference between Latin and Latin America showed their stupidity through their own actions.
You are stupid in what you say. And one properly uses “an” before a word beginning in a vowel, like “email,” rather than “a.” Modern newspaper usage is generally incorrect–for probably several reasons. Which haven’t helped you in learning the grammar as it was once taught. Shumlin may be annoyingly both ‘politic’ in how he speaks and kind of money grubbing in how he operates but he does support progressive projects and ideas. State Senators and former state Senators, with whom he worked, have told me that he was very good at finding common ground to get work done when he acted as President pro tem of the state Senate. You may have your own views on all this but your arrogant, but un-evidenced attitude does not support you very well. (No I ain’t a lawyer, and didn’t go to college.)
You made quite a few mistakes in your paragraph as well. Never start a sentence with the words “and” or “but”. You put a period in the wrong place, you were quoting a single word not an entire sentence. “for probably several reasons” isn’t necessarily incorrect, but it ruins the flow of the paragraph. You also used the word “but” twice in one sentence. Again not incorrect, but lazy. I’m assuming that the use of “ain’t” was just tomfoolery. I probably made a few mistakes myself if I look closely. My point is that you should probably calm down with the simple grammatical errors and focus on people that spell “that” as “dat” and so forth. They need the lessons much worse!
Picky, picky, picky. In this blog I take some deliberate license with the lesser rules of grammar. Do you always take a red pen to everything you read online, or do you sometimes have a little fun?
“your” arrogant?! That is amusing coming from someone correcting another’s spelling and grammar!
To hugenjolly- chris’s use of “your” is correct. He was not saying “You are arrogant,” he was saying “your arrogant (but un-evidenced) attitude.” He probably should have punctuated it differently, but he did spell it correctly.
Chris, one uses “an” before a vowel sound, not necessarily a vowel. For example, one would say “an hour” but “a European.” Your second sentence is not a sentence but a dependent clause. “Senators” and “senate” should not be capitalized unless part of a proper noun, as in “Senator Benning” or the “Vermont State Senate.” By the way, to your critic Andro, a period does go inside the quote whether it is a single word or a complete sentence. That rule changed some time in the ’80s. And, one may also start a sentence with “and” or “but.” I know this information because I hold my degrees in English with a concentration in rhetoric. I teach composition and research at the undergraduate level. Chris, your post and Andro’s reply remind of a saying my mother often used, “People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”
Awaiting Moderation????? WTF????
I have enabled comment moderation on this blog, mostly to prevent offensive content and/or spam.
Offensive language? WTF ?? 😉
“WTF”???
Ex ungue leonem. . . hence, the need for moderation.
As the very proud parent of a Vermont-raised Latin major, I’m sorry that these Vermonters didn’t have the public-school education she had. I suspect the Latin (and everything else she learned at Harwood Union HS) will take her far.
Sadly, Harwood is considering dropping Latin, thus increasing the chances that the next generation of voters may not bring their best to civic engagement…
Sadly, Latin is being dropped everywhere. Nobody wants to teach it. My daughter’s Latin teacher was almost 80 years old and the last Latin teacher in the county. She has since passed away, so Latin is now definitely a dead language.
I believe Harwood has reconsidered dropping Latin. Our daughter, who graduated Harwood in the 80s, now teaches Greek and Latin in Massachusetts. Harwood is named for her grandfather.
Barry, please re-read the first two sentences of this story. The girl who started this all is in eighth grade studying Latin. My niece, in a Texas school, is studying Latin and is a part of the Latin Club. Latin is still being taught in some schools.
While I never attended public school, I absolutely support that Latin should be taught in them for this very reason and as a core subject, not an elective. Not only does Latin open up your world to cultures outside of your own (like any foreign language should), but since it isn’t a part of the common language anywhere anymore it also opens up history and the awareness that a time existed before ours. Not to mention its advantages for understanding the English language better. Its a sad state when our people can’t discern between Latin and Latin America and even sadder still when that misunderstanding propels us to pitting cultures and languages against one another.
I think it’s safe to say that the people who can’t tell Latin from Latino are a minority. (Ironic, huh?) It’s just sad that they feel emboldened to spread their ignorance online.
Not just that. Wasn’t the concept of national “universal” education promoted because a nation couldn’t be depended to vote in an educated, even a truly self-serving way, unless they were educated? This is just such an example of people who might vote against their own self interest because they do not understand what issue(s) they are confronting.
I don’t agree that Latin should be a core subject, but that core units in understanding the Latin origins of many English words should be mandatory. I am reminded of one of my favorite workbooks from when I was a kid: the Wordly Wise series. Those books went over Latin roots and conjugation in English words, and it was as valuable as learning Latin itself. I’d also love to see more Latin learning in romance language classes like Spanish…that is…if we don’t stop teaching Spanish because brown people we don’t like speak it.
BTW…I’m a former history and humanities teacher who is now a curriculum designer for an international organization. My ability to understand the roots of romance languages allows me greater access to French and Spanish in particular. I use that knowledge every day in my job.
Learning Latin helps you understand English grammar better and is a significant help to those who wish to learn other languages (including, ironically, Spanish).
“Not only does Latin open up your world to cultures outside of your own (like any foreign language should), but since it isn’t a part of the common language anywhere anymore it also opens up history and the awareness that a time existed before ours. Not to mention its advantages for understanding the English language better.”
It’s important to note that this additional understanding is not limited only to English, because English is not the only language to have descended from Latin.
As someone who took Latin in school, but no other languages, there have been numerous instances where I have been able to discern meaning from text in other languages by recognizing the applicable Latin root words.
English did not descend from latin. It is a germanic language not a romance language. The latin words we have didn’t come from latin but the Catholic church. Why we pronounce V the way we do and not in the latin fasion for instance.
However, English as we speak it is an amalgamation of the two – Germanic root language with Latin grammar rules imposed.
By and large, the Latin words in English came into it through the Norman conquest and then later borrowings from French. The influence of the Catholic Church was slight.
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.” – James Nicoll
I think one problem, beautifulerooted, is that you think it is a positive thing when people attempt to ” open up (their) world to cultures outside of (their) own” when it is obvious that many think it best if we close ourselves off to any outside influences. History has shown, time and time again, that thinking one person or one line of thought is the answer is destructive but people like those who made the comments in this article don’t read history. You are absolutely correct but they don’t care.
While I can’t speak for the people who don’t know Latin from Latin America I did make a comment about wasting time in the Vermont legislature. With all the garbage coming out of the statehouse these days it’s hard not to be cynical about their priorities.
4 examples please. Time wasted, or time used to widen mental horizons. What amount of time wasted. Why not look at the Federal 3 and 4 day a week $150K plus bimbos.?
I’m from Pennsylvania, but I must say, nicely told. Peace and best, John
The angry internetists who are keen to point out that their state speaks ENGLISH and that therefore no foreign slogans should be allowed should bear in mind that they do not live in ENGLAND and that therefore English is a foreign language to them. Mind you, their grammar is self sufficient evidence of that.
Hey guys that is an ad for chesterfields at the top of the page..I object
That is, in fact, a photo of then-President Warren Harding pretending to type. (Note lack of paper in typewriter.)
Well all, the story continues. The young lady who originally asked me to consider introducing a bill for a Latin Motto will be testifying before the Senate Government Operations committee at 2:00pm on Wednesday, February 11th in support of the bill. I suspect she will make a very good impression. I am also willing to lay odds that the tripartisan membership of that committee will vote unanimously in support of the bill, if for no other reason than to demonstrate that legislators still care about the Classics and Vermont’s heritage. Stay tuned!
Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent. 🙂
NVNC ID VIDES, NVNC NE VIDES motto of Unseen University
(Now you see it, now you don’t.)
I think it is a wonderful idea and expresses a thoughtful sentiment. Perhaps when the Latin Motto is put in place, it will become a teachable moment for many. This certainly created quite a wide range of responses. I’m glad Graham Newell isn’t around to witness some of the comments…
Thanks for supporting the kid with the good idea! I was born in Vermont, my mother had been raised in Lyndonville, and I’m very sad that a state motto in Latin is a political issue in any way. Vale, pax tecum. Scholares Latini est semper paratus!
Bravo! (Brava!)
I live in Illinois, but we’re at no loss for short-sighted xenophobic rubes. If nothing else, a motto written in Latin shows a modicum, a small acknowledgement, of the reach of western culture. I’m glad that this young woman will get an audience. Good luck, Mr. Benning.
Romanes Eunt Domus!
What’s this, then? People called Romanes, they go the house?
Someone hasn’t seen Life of Brian! (It’s supposed to mean Romans go home)
You had better not let out that it wasn’t an English speaking American that gave Vermont its name. Heads might explode. Damn foreigners!
“French explorer Samuel de Champlain called the Green Mountains of Vermont “Verd Mont” (green mountain) on his 1647 map.”
And in the American way, we butchered the pronunciation and the spelling to come up with a made- up state name “Vermont” that is neither Germanic nor Latin in its root. Ignorance is a contagious disease that is treatable with education. The growing prevalence of ignorance in our country is a consequence of the deterioration of our educational system for which no one seems to have a cure.
Apparently, language snobbery is almost as prevalent as ignorance. There isn’t a damn thing wrong with the name “Vermont.” Language evolves.
I think it was Conan O’Brien who said that the official language of the United States is Third Grade English.
I’m sorry, but reading those comments from “Vermonters” gave me a really good chuckle. I know those people aren’t a good representation of the good people from Vermont and most states are going to have their own “humdingers,” so I am not holding it against you. Those people featured in that article really need to rethink going back to school for some good ole fashion refresher courses! I love it though, Latin-America…lawl!
Hmm. How do you say “Let the fourteenth star shine brightly” in Abenaki. No one could quarrel with that, eh?
We even have a former Vice President say: “I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn’t study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people.” –Dan Quayle
I hope the bill is still moving forward.
We must not generalize from specifics. Much more recently, 2009, Obama believed people in Austria spoke “Austrian”. While addressing US Marines, he pronounced the word Corps as ‘Corpse’. So, two wrongs certainly don’t make a right. However, we have identified a couple of very ignorant people who somehow made it to our nation’s top offices.
Sorry, but you’re repeating an urban legend. It was obviously a true statement until somebody substituted the word “Obama” for “W.” Nobody who pulled higher than a “gentleman’s C” in college has ever seriously stated that Austrians speak Austrian or said “corpse” instead of “corps.”
Please don’t play with the adults. Stick to the kiddy table if you are going to make inane statements. Please see the following and here your president, from his lips to your ear. Enjoy….. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNr66HHhMjs
If you’re going to pick on Obama for one or two misstatements over several years’ time, you might want to check the undistinguished record of his predecessor.
Well! I must apologize for trying to excuse our President’s ignorance! Apparently he also said the following. I can see why you didn’t vote for him.
“Neither in French nor in English nor in Mexican.”
“I’ll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office.”
“I’m looking forward to a good night’s sleep on the soil of a friend.”
“There’s a huge trust. I see it all the time when people come up to me and say, ‘I don’t want you to let me down again.’ ”
“Well, I think if you say you’re going to do something and don’t do it, that’s trustworthiness.”
“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.””See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
“We’ll let our friends be the peacekeepers and the great country called America will be the pacemakers.”
“One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.”
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
“I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family.”
“Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?”
“Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB/GYNs aren’t able to practice their love with women all across the country..
“You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.’’
“I’m the decider, and I decide what is best. And what’s best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the secretary of defense.”
“I’ve heard he’s been called Bush’s poodle. He’s bigger than that.”
“And so, General, I want to thank you for your service. And I appreciate the fact that you really snatched defeat out of the jaws of those who are trying to defeat us in Iraq.”
“We ought to make the pie higher.”
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee—I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, fool me once, shame on—shame on you. Fool me—you can’t get fooled again.”
“And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I’m sorry it’s the case, and I’ll work hard to try to elevate it.”
“It’s important for us to explain to our nation that life is important. It’s not only life of babies, but it’s life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet.”
“People say, ‘How can I help on this war against terror? How can I fight evil?’ You can do so by mentoring a child; by going into a shut-in’s house and say I love you.”
“I think it’s really important for this great state of baseball to reach out to people of all walks of life to make sure that the sport is inclusive. The best way to do it is to convince little kids how to—the beauty of playing baseball.”
“Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream.”
“You know, when I campaigned here in 2000, I said, I want to be a war president. No president wants to be a war president, but I am one.”
“They misunderestimated me.”
Latin, Latino,the ignorance about the difference is sad, but the underlying hatred, that is the saddest thing. Not a true representation of how Vermonters feel by the way, and certainly not a clear picture of how we educate our children. Vermont, just like every other state in the union, has it’s share of people who chose ignorance and laziness over understanding and education. One more time I have to be grateful for the amazing education students get at St.J Academy.
Don’t tell them that the reason the University of Vermont is abbreviated UVM instead of UVT is because its name is actually Latin: Universitas Viridis Montes (University of the Green Mountains).
Universitas Viridium Montium
The last two words are genitive plurals (“of the Green Mountains”), & are both 3rd declension i-stems (so they end -ium, instead of just -um).
And don’t despair TOO much–there are still plenty of us out there teaching Latin. I’ve been doing it for 21 years, & some of my own students have gone on to become Latin teachers, too 🙂
What’s the correct Latin grammar for “Viridis Montes delenda est”?
@halfspin: Virides Montes delendi sunt
(lit. “The Green Mountains must be destroyed”; masculine plural nominatives, with virides montes being 3rd declension & delendi being 2nd declension)
Remember Vice-President Quayle, when on a visit to Mexico (I think it was), said, “Here I am in Latin America, and I don’t know any Latin”? Oh, and Bettina, don’t rely on SpelCheck; it’s
supposed to be “its,” rather than “it’s” in your use of it.
nice package, for a suit.
As someone who took three years of Latin at a Vermont high school, I don’t know whether I should laugh at this article or cry.
Re: moderating – you could require all comments on the proposed Latin motto to follow a form such as:
Latin is:
Latino/Latina is:
Latin America is:
In full understanding of the definitions above, I nevertheless feel that Vermont should not have a motto in Latin because:
Regardless of whether Vermont should have a motto in Latin or not, I do not wish Vermont, the fourteenth state and fourteenth star of the Union to shine brightly because:
Or would that take all the fun out of it? 😉
Quid Pedicabo?
As for the high school I sort of attended many many years ago, latin was taught to those who were actually official students.
More than a few of us who went there merely to watch others and intimidate the teachers, had two mottos(mottoes?).
One was:
“If at first you don’t succeed. Cheat.
Repeat until caught.
Then lie.”
I understand this will get you hired either at fox noise or in the gop.
The other motto was more accurately applied to those of us with the football team and had something to do with a couple of the cheerleaders.
It was, “vid vici veni” in that order.
As for the twitterers who don’t understand “latinese”, it shocked me that there is actually a south of Vermont filled with trailers and the attendant trash.
Do they realize that they might have to turn in or burn all their US currency due to the latin phrases?
Wait, for them I’d better type “frayzes”.
I live in WI. Could I interest any of you Green Mountain boys & girls in a trade?
We will give you someone named walker, a real koch sucker.
You can send us anything in return. Pleeeease?
Finally, I applaud the young lady and Senator Benning.
Semper Fideles! The US Marines are unAmerican for using Latin?
Romanes Eunt Domus!
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
I believe the only proper response to such illiterati to be
Quin tu, fellator, teipsum fututum abis?
Romanes eunt domus!
What an entertains reply section. Thanks for both the article and all the clever responses. Sad commentary on the educational and xenophobic states of at least some of our fellow citizens.
“Entertaining”
The sad part is that if you call the letter-writers out on their stupidity (even politely), they won’t acknowledge it. I’ve had similar arguments with a whole universe of like-minded folks, and they have been trained to not accept reality, especially from someone with academic credentials. And even if you got them to admit that Latin is a dead language and has nothing to do with immigration, they’d counter that there’s no reason for Vermonters to have a non-English motto.
Reblogged this on Jaywalking Birdwalking Jabberwocky and commented:
This is so bad and so sad that it’s funny.
Welcome to the United States of Teabaggers
UN-BE-LIEVABLE !!! Do you not have schools in America? I cannot believe that so many people think that “Latin” means Latin America. America – Land of the Great Uneducated. Wow!
I haven’t read all of the comments on this page, so forgive me if this has been said before. I would just like to point out that the people that commented could be from anywhere. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that one of these people saw the headline on their Facebook feed, reacted, commented, and told their like-minded friends about their rage. Perhaps we need to enforce our education laws a little differently – like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbI-fDzUJXI
Et tu, brutes?
The reaction to this legislation, shows just how bad things have become in this country of ours. Such a shame. And very sad.
The bible was written in Latin – these anti-Latin people just hate God & want to make the baby Jesus cry. Or something.
Hey Bill, the Bible was originally written in Greek, then translated into Latin relatively early on.
The true crime is that “fourteenth” is not “quarta decima” but “quattuordecima.” The former means “fourth tenth”
Nope–quarta decima is correct, because 14th is an ordinal numeral (& yes, it does split into two words, so it LOOKS like “fourth tenth”!). Ordinal numerals decline, hence the -a ending (feminine singular nominative, to agree with stella, the subject). 14 = quattuordecim (one word; most cardinal numerals do not decline, so there’s no inflected ending).
No, The Old Testament were written in Hebrew or Biblical Aramaic, and the New mostly in Greek, even if Jesus spoke Aramaic, a language closely related to Hebrew. A complete Latin translation(The Vulgata) of the whole bible didn’t exist before late in the 4th century, before that parts of it was in Greek. The original texts of the New were probably written in several languages, including Greek, with the non-greek parts later translated into Greek and edited to make up the first New T. as we know it. Then it was translated into Latin part for part when the Catholic Church became the official religion of the Roman Empire…
Yes, I know. It was a joke. I thought it fairly obvious really, but clearly not. I was hoping for someone to tell me that they’ve read the James IV version & that proves Jesus spoke English. It would be on a level with the stupidity of some of those good citizens of Vermont, who seem to think Brazilians speak Latin.
The Bible itself was not originally written in Latin. The Old Testament was written in ancient Hebrew, & the New Testament was written in common Greek (called Koine Greek). St. Jerome, in the late 4th century, translated the Bible into Latin officially, for the popes. There had been earlier, inferior, Latin translations, so Jerome’s was designed to be the legit one. It stayed the legit one for 1,000+ years. Jerome, not being Jewish, had to teach himself Hebrew, so this was indeed a mammoth undertaking. To make it most accessible, Jerome used the more common, everyday Latin, rather than the highly stylized literary Latin of the classical period. He used Latina Vulgata, “Common Latin”, hence his translation is often called the Vulgate.
If you’re curious, the whole thing is available online here:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/nova-vulgata_index_lt.html
No, I’m not curious. It was a joke.
I believe the original intention of “Illegitimi …” was to create a pseudo-Latin exhortation to say: Don’t let the bastards grind you down (hence the allusion to Carborundum).
In any case, we’ve got to get less prescriptive about what we keep _out_ of anything. A Latin motto is a nice thing to have, but then, why not mottoes in Russian, and French, and Swahili …? I don’t have any answers.
I must agree that the bad spelling is distressing. But the most vocal elements in Pennsylvania (whence I come) also have a tendency to shoot from the hip with bad grammar, bad spelling and bad syntax. I think their general idea is that anything that annoys educated folks is all to the good, since educated folks seem to be running away with everything. Little do they know.
S. de Silva
Yes, the people who complained about adopting a Latin motto are a sad and sorry bunch, but isn’t essentializing Latin over, say, Mandarin or Bengali, just as dangerous?
Well, no, because Latin is part of our heritage as a country. The United States has a Latin motto. Most of the states do as well. And this particular Latin motto, as I wrote in a follow-up post, harkens back to the very early days of then-independent Vermont. It reflects our history in a way that nothing in Mandarin ever could.
What’a Latin for “You can’t fix Stupid”?
“Stultus non reparatur” might do.
The reactions might not be so much from the teabagger element, but from people who are unaware that they are winning the race to the bottom. It’s the “crabs in a basket” phenomenon: You put one crab in a wire basket, and it will escape, but if you put it in with other crabs, when it tries to escape, another will pull it back in. Some people are just so stressed out from a lousy job with poor pay and too many bills and ills that the only way they can get out of their rut, even if only for a short time, is to blow up over some little thing (blowing up over a big thing could get them in big trouble). So they choose a safe target, and sometimes, as in this instance, they have faulty weapons at hand and make themselves look ludicrous.
If they were aware they were winning the race to the bottom, they’d work to do something to change that, but the present system offers many ways to divert their attention from what’s happening to them.
My personal Latin motto is Fedum scit.
I didn’t know you found rednecks so far north. I bet those nutcases would freak out if they knew that Vermont was first settled by French. “Vert Mont” means “Green Mount”, and its capital Montpelier is named after Montpellier, a city in southern France which has been famous since the 1200s for its medical university.
Reblogged this on The Library of Antiquity and commented:
We are non-partisan politically, but we definitely support teaching Latin in K-12 — and becoming politically active.
Reblogged this on Move for Change and the Brooklyn Culture Jam and commented:
So sad it’s almost… funny. A state legislator in Vermont took up the inoffensive cause of an eighth grade girl who wanted to have Vermont’s state motto in Latin as well as English. He introduced the bill in the legislature and thought it was a no-brainer. Once local news picked up the story, he was pilloried and excoriated by Vermonters who were of the ‘speak English or go back to Latin America!’ variety.